Note: I accidentally clicked "reply" instead of "followup", and sent tis
to Justisaur first.
Sorry 'bout that, and any confusion. :)
On 2017-05-09 8:41 AM, Justisaur wrote:> I'm beginning to wonder...
especially if you consider just core (not
Post by Justisaur
that there's that much extra in 5e to add on). There's just so much of
what I consider clunky rules add-ons. Archetypes chosen somewhere
between 1st to 3rd. The spell system with known spells, spell
preparation and spell slots all being different, then you've got spells
that change what they do if you cast them using a higher spell slot, and
the concentration mechanic added to quite a few spells, constant saves,
Just a thought.
Am I actually pining for 3e? No can't be...
Using *just* the rules in the 3.5 PHB and a few from the DMG, I can:
* Assemble a hired team to build a ship. (hireling rules, knowledge
(local), gather information, etc).
* Cost out all of the materials needed to build the ship. (some prices
will have to be estimated by the GM, but that is literally their job,
and they can use price lists from around 1200 AD. Or simplify from 1/3
average cost of ship = cost of raw materials)
* Estimate the likely time to build the ship, add some padding for
mishaps, then add some extra padding, all quite accurately. (crafting rules)
* Hire guards of various levels and professions to protect the
enterprise. (hireling rules again, as well as possibly the rules for
hiring NPCs of equal or higher level - Might need the DMG for that part)
* Hire competent managers, and know which prospects are reliable, and by
how much. (diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, knowledge (local), gather
information, sense motive, etc.)
* Manage the entire enterprise. (see above)
* Deal with the inevitable problems. (same)
* Gain experience points equitable to the challenges faced and foes
overcome. (a falling piece of improperly-secured mast is, mechanically,
just a trap, and overcoming it should give XP as a trap; likewise,
overcoming a rival non-violently also, by RAW, gives full XP)
* Price the ship, hunt for buyers, and sell at a profit. (the usual
social skills, plus the knowledge that 3x raw materials = average price
Not to mention all of the many, many other things implied by those rules
What I can do with the 5e crafting rules?
* Divide the cost of the ship by 5 gp.
I may be exaggerating; I have too little interest in 5e to actually
check it out as thoroughly as it may deserve.
There is a difference between loads of simple combat options, which 5e
has, its claim to also support "adventuring" (whatever that means;
certainly not "an abundance of non-combat skills") and "exploration"
(which evidently means "finding places containing trouble")...
...and a rules-set that contains a lot of simple, clear rules on how to
handle a lot of diverse situations, which 3.X has.
In a different note, 3.X was insulting to everyone who wasn't a caster;
and rubbed salt in the wounds by having even "non-caster" supplements
contain large amounts of caster material.
However, 5e insults casters, by limiting them to a very small number of
spells per day; but also insults non-casters, by turning the
"fifteen-minute work-day" into the "5-minute work-day", and by not
actually nerfing many of the spells; and actually buffing a few of them.
In addition, no source I have read can explain why a 1st-level caster's
cantrips do as much damage as a 1st-level fighter in 5e.
I recommend taking the best parts of 3.5 and 3.0, setting base saving
throw to 1/2 character level, having reasonable players, nerfing spells
as appropriate (wall of iron does *not* need to create permanent iron,
and if your players still can't get up to shenanigans with it, that is
their problem), and rule that mithral acts as alchemical silver for the
purpose of bypassing damage resistance, so it has an actual use as a
weapon. Also, sprinkle some more skill points and class skills on
classes like the poor old fighter. And make the monk flurry of blows add
+2 extra blows, no matter whether you're moving or not. Oh, and *give* 1
XP per 25 gp of item crafted. Oh, and research the rules from Pathfinder
on non-caster magic item crafting.
That should fix most of 3.X.