Discussion:
Pathfinder 2e in the works
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Justisaur
2018-03-07 22:26:41 UTC
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http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkl9&page=last?First-Look-at-the-Pathfinder-Playtest#discuss

Sounds like they want to move slightly in the 5e D&D direction, trying to reign in the magic item christmas tree, and three actions. Maybe changing terminology to try to distance themselves from D&D.

I'm slightly more interested in this than I was in PF1e, but that's not saying much.

- Justisaur
Spalls Hurgenson
2018-03-08 14:22:33 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:26:41 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
Post by Justisaur
http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkl9&page=last?First-Look-at-the-Pathfinder-Playtest#discuss
Sounds like they want to move slightly in the 5e D&D direction,
trying to reign in the magic item christmas tree, and three actions.
Maybe changing terminology to try to distance themselves from D&D.
I'm slightly more interested in this than I was in PF1e, but that's not saying much.
I am less sanguine about the update, but not because of the proposed
changes. I just hate how these updates result in increased costs,
confusion and fragmentation, without any real gain. Yes, they will fix
some problems, but inevitably this new edition will have all new
problems. Meanwhile, I'll have to buy new rules, new sourcebooks; I'll
have to worry about whether adventure X will work with edition Y, I'll
worry about players will want to play 1st or 2nd edition (inevitably,
there will be a split). It's just a lot of wasted energy, emotion and
money I'd rather do without. It's also a good way for a game to lose
players; why struggle trying to figure which edition to use when you
can just jump to another game entirely?

But of course, the real problem is the focus on the rules and system,
as if making a few changes are going to fix the underlying issue with
/all/ role-playing games: you can't model real life with a few rules
and dice rolls. A new edition's worth of rules isn't going to change
that basic fact.

Ultimately, all games are flawed, unbalanced, too complex, not complex
enough, overpowered, underpowered, what have you. Switching to a new
edition - or a new game - isn't going to fix these problems, they'll
just switch things about a bit. Good DMing - writing good aventures,
finding the balance between playability and realism that you and your
players enjoy, being a fair and consistent referee, etc. etc. - are
far, far, /far/ more essential to an enjoyable game session than
whether you are playing D&D or Traveller or Exalted or Pathfinder,
much less what edition you are using. My general opinion is that if
you are arguing about the rules, then /you are playing the game
wrong/. Focus more on having fun and providing a memorable experience
than whether it makes sense that a crossbow only does 1d6 damage or
that the wizard is overpowered.

Well, either way it is no real skin off my back; I don't play
Pathfinder - at least not with any regularity. I just personally think
Paizo would be better off working on settings and adventures - which
admittedly has been their bread and butter for the past few years -
rather than chase the white rabbit of the perfect rule system. If they
feel the rules don't work in certain areas, either spin off an
entirely new game or do like TSR did, and perhaps create a new setting
where they house-rule in changes that fit that game-world better while
leaving the core unchanged.

</grumpy>
tetsubo57
2018-03-08 20:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justisaur
http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkl9&page=last?First-Look-at-the-Pathfinder-Playtest#discuss
Sounds like they want to move slightly in the 5e D&D direction, trying to reign in the magic item christmas tree, and three actions. Maybe changing terminology to try to distance themselves from D&D.
I'm slightly more interested in this than I was in PF1e, but that's not saying much.
- Justisaur
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like PF, warts and all. I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books enroute at the minute. I have no interest in an 'improved' system. WotC did it with 4E and now Paizo will do it with 2E. Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy about it. It just is.
h***@gmail.com
2018-03-09 13:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by tetsubo57
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like PF, warts and all. I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books enroute at the minute. I have no interest in an 'improved' system. WotC did it with 4E and now Paizo will do it with 2E. Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy about it. It just is.
I used to play 2nd ed AD&D, then 3rd ed came out..
How about waiting to see what 2nd ed pathfinder is like before writing it off?
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
2018-03-09 15:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by tetsubo57
Post by tetsubo57
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like
PF, warts an
d all. I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books
enroute at the minute. I have no interest in an 'improved'
system. WotC did it with 4E and now Paizo will do it with 2E.
Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy about it. It
just is.
I used to play 2nd ed AD&D, then 3rd ed came out..
How about waiting to see what 2nd ed pathfinder is like before
writing it off?
If the objection is spending a lot more money, and the split in
games, complaining without seeing the new game is perfectly
legitimate. Of course, the same complaint was just as legitimate for
every new edition of D&D, as well as for the release of the original
Pathfinder, and every other OSR game.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
tetsubo57
2018-03-09 21:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by tetsubo57
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like PF, warts and all. I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books enroute at the minute. I have no interest in an 'improved' system. WotC did it with 4E and now Paizo will do it with 2E. Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy about it. It just is.
I used to play 2nd ed AD&D, then 3rd ed came out..
How about waiting to see what 2nd ed pathfinder is like before writing it off?
I'm not buying a new edition of PF. I've looked at Unleashed. It wouldn't get me to rebuy the system either. I haven't even acquired all the current PF books I want. I suppose I might be able to pick up the 1E books cheap once 2E launches.
Spalls Hurgenson
2018-03-10 14:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by tetsubo57
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like PF, warts and all.
I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books enroute at the minute.
I have no interest in an 'improved' system. WotC did it with 4E and now
Paizo will do it with 2E. Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy
about it. It just is.
I used to play 2nd ed AD&D, then 3rd ed came out..
How about waiting to see what 2nd ed pathfinder is like before writing it off?
Heh, not a good example amongst those of us who preferred the older
games. If Pathfinder 2 is to Pathfinder 1 as D&D 3 was to D&D 2, then
I'm doubling down and saying that the update is gonna be a bad idea
;-)

Then again, I'm really on the sidelines on this one; from a practical
standpoint, I really don't care. It's not going to affect me since I
don't play the game. Were I a customer though, I'd be pissed; I'm long
past the time when I thought new rules would make a game better, and
it has been even longer since I labored under the illusion that these
new editions had more to do with "improving" the game than they did
with increasing corporate profits.

Presumably the number crunchers at Paizo have done the math and
determined that the money they get by making everybody repurchase all
their rules and supplements will exceed the money they lose from
alienated customers. We'll see if they are right; the odds are in
their favor, after all. The number of games that have failed after
transitioning to a new edition are outnumbered by the games that have
succeeded, and even a bad edition doesn't necessarily spell doom for a
franchise.
h***@gmail.com
2018-03-10 16:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
Post by h***@gmail.com
Post by tetsubo57
Looks like another case of being fired as a customer. I like PF, warts and all.
I own a lot of PF material. Heck I've got two books enroute at the minute.
I have no interest in an 'improved' system. WotC did it with 4E and now
Paizo will do it with 2E. Inevitable I suppose. I can't even say I'm grumpy
about it. It just is.
I used to play 2nd ed AD&D, then 3rd ed came out..
How about waiting to see what 2nd ed pathfinder is like before writing it off?
Heh, not a good example amongst those of us who preferred the older
games.
If you preferred the earlier games and are still playing then you're unlikely to be the target market.
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
If Pathfinder 2 is to Pathfinder 1 as D&D 3 was to D&D 2, then
I'm doubling down and saying that the update is gonna be a bad idea
;-)
Have you even looked at what the changes are or are you just whining for the fun of it?
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
Then again, I'm really on the sidelines on this one; from a practical
standpoint, I really don't care. It's not going to affect me since I
don't play the game. Were I a customer though, I'd be pissed; I'm long
past the time when I thought new rules would make a game better,
Depends on the rules and what you think makes a game better.
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
and
it has been even longer since I labored under the illusion that these
new editions had more to do with "improving" the game than they did
with increasing corporate profits.
Varies widely, there are lots of different reasons.
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
Presumably the number crunchers at Paizo have done the math and
determined that the money they get by making everybody repurchase all
their rules and supplements will exceed the money they lose from
alienated customers.
Well a company is unlikely to do it to deliberately make less money. However a large part of the reason they think people will buy supplements is they think the game will be better.

Note that a major part of Paizo's money comes from the adventure paths rather than supplements and rules games.
Post by Spalls Hurgenson
We'll see if they are right; the odds are in
their favor, after all. The number of games that have failed after
transitioning to a new edition are outnumbered by the games that have
succeeded, and even a bad edition doesn't necessarily spell doom for a
franchise.
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