D&D Craft skills

[x***@yahoo.com]

I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.

This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?

Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances

Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture

Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items

Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.

Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper

Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.

Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.

Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks

Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.

Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment

Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography

Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.

Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry

Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

[Erol K. Bayburt]

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.
This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?
Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances
Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture
Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items
Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.
Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper
Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.
Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.
Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks
Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.
Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment
Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography
Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.
Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry
Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

My 2 cents:

o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)

o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

o Candle-making

o Glassblowing

o I'd leave paper-making out of "carpentry", and possibly rename
carpentry as "woodworking"

o Your "weaving" strikes me as too much of a catch-all. I'm sure you
don't want to do too much splitting, but I'd suggest that weaving and
sewing be two crafts, rather than lumped into one.

[Jasin Zujovic]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ErolB1
@comcast.net says...

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.
This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?
Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances
Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture
Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items
Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.
Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper
Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.
Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.
Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks
Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.
Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment
Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography
Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.
Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry
Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

These two (and other similar) might be folded together craft (jeweler).

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making
o Glassblowing

Those two are pretty big, I guess, but I'm not sure where they'd fit,
except their own categories, which seems awfully restricted.

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o I'd leave paper-making out of "carpentry", and possibly rename
carpentry as "woodworking"
o Your "weaving" strikes me as too much of a catch-all. I'm sure you
don't want to do too much splitting, but I'd suggest that weaving and
sewing be two crafts, rather than lumped into one.

But consider that D&D is an adventuring game, and that every skill point
invested in craft (weaving and sewing) is a skill point not invested in
tumble or diplomacy or spot.

+1 to weaving and sewing is hardly worth -1 to any of those, let alone
two.

Iron Heroes has an interesting idea: IIRC, crafts are split up along
"big stuff" and "small stuff", and "stone, metal, organic". So someone
with craft (small stuff, metal) would be able to craft rings, swords,
locks... hardly realistic, but simple, and might actually encourage
someone to invest in craft.

[Werebat]

Post by Jasin Zujovic
@comcast.net says...

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.
This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?
Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances
Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture
Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items
Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.
Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper
Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.
Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.
Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks
Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.
Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment
Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography
Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.
Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry
Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

These two (and other similar) might be folded together craft (jeweler).

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making
o Glassblowing

Those two are pretty big, I guess, but I'm not sure where they'd fit,
except their own categories, which seems awfully restricted.

Not if you're a candle caster...

- Ron ^*^

[Jasin Zujovic]

Post by Werebat

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making
o Glassblowing

Those two are pretty big, I guess, but I'm not sure where they'd fit,
except their own categories, which seems awfully restricted.

Not if you're a candle caster...

Does a candle caster need to make his own candles? Couldn't he just buy
them, 1 cp apiece?

[Justisaur]

Post by Jasin Zujovic
@comcast.net says...

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.
This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?
Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances
Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture
Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items
Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.

If you want to really limit the skills, throw this in with cooking.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper
Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.
Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.
Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks

Usually we throw stonemasory & architecture under this one as well.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.

could go under cooking.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment

could go with weaving as well.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt

Post by x***@yahoo.com
Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography
Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.
Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry
Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

Generally Jewelers know both of those, they could just be jewelcraft.

Post by Jasin Zujovic
These two (and other similar) might be folded together craft (jeweler).

doh. not reading ahead. I ah, um agree..

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making

Shoehorn into cooking. It's pretty similar.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Glassblowing

Ceramics. Glazes are a form of glass.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o I'd leave paper-making out of "carpentry", and possibly rename
carpentry as "woodworking"

Paper making could go in writing. or weaving for that matter.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Your "weaving" strikes me as too much of a catch-all. I'm sure you
don't want to do too much splitting, but I'd suggest that weaving and
sewing be two crafts, rather than lumped into one.

But consider that D&D is an adventuring game, and that every skill point
invested in craft (weaving and sewing) is a skill point not invested in
tumble or diplomacy or spot.

If you want profession type crafts, you could just go that way as well.


Craft housewife: allows you to do weaving, sewing & cooking.
Craft smith: you can make all items usually made with hard metals, from
nails to swords & armor to locks.

Most crafts as time continues are extensions of and specialized
versions of previous crafts. For instance watch making is craft all
it's own, but grew out of locksmithing, which grew out of blacksmithing
which probably grew out of something else, most likely ceramics. (or at
least to my knowledge & swag).

- Justisaur

[Peter Knutsen (usenet)]

Post by Justisaur

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making

Shoehorn into cooking. It's pretty similar.

Making tallow candles is probably unskilled labour, if somebody tells
you what to do. The challenge lies in making candles with special
properties (scent, e.g.), or out of luxury materials (such as beeswax).

[Erol K. Bayburt]

Post by Jasin Zujovic
@comcast.net says...

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

These two (and other similar) might be folded together craft (jeweler).

True, and a common way of doing things in other game systems.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Candle-making
o Glassblowing

Those two are pretty big, I guess, but I'm not sure where they'd fit,
except their own categories, which seems awfully restricted.

Candle-making could be folded into alchemy, maybe.

Post by Jasin Zujovic

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o I'd leave paper-making out of "carpentry", and possibly rename
carpentry as "woodworking"
o Your "weaving" strikes me as too much of a catch-all. I'm sure you
don't want to do too much splitting, but I'd suggest that weaving and
sewing be two crafts, rather than lumped into one.

But consider that D&D is an adventuring game, and that every skill point
invested in craft (weaving and sewing) is a skill point not invested in
tumble or diplomacy or spot.

Yes, which is what I meant by avoiding "too much splitting." It's just
that combined weaving/sewing struck me as being a much broader Craft
than the other examples the OP gave.

Post by Jasin Zujovic
+1 to weaving and sewing is hardly worth -1 to any of those, let alone
two.
Iron Heroes has an interesting idea: IIRC, crafts are split up along
"big stuff" and "small stuff", and "stone, metal, organic". So someone
with craft (small stuff, metal) would be able to craft rings, swords,
locks... hardly realistic, but simple, and might actually encourage
someone to invest in craft.

Another way to look at this might be to start with a "budget" of 6 or
9 or 12 or however many Craft skills, and then divide the World of
Crafts among them.

[Rick Pikul]

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

The word you're looking for is "whitesmith".

A whitesmith works with 'white' metals like gold, silver or tin;
while a blacksmith works with 'black' metals like iron and steel.

[Peter Knutsen (usenet)]

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

[...]

If I was forced to distinguish very little, I'd distinguish between
forging weapons (or, more broably, durable objects) vs making decorative
objects that won't be structurally challenged.

In Sagatafl, familiarity with the properties of a given metal is handled
as a binary skill, so you'd know or not know how to apply your
(non-binary) Weaponsmithing skill to forge weapons out of iron, silver,
bronze or even copper. The making of jewelry does not require
familiarity with the metal, unless it has exotic properties, e.g.
platinum which has a very high melting point.

[Eric P.]

Post by Peter Knutsen (usenet)

Post by Erol K. Bayburt
o Gemcutting: cutting and polishing gemstones (I don't think this
quite fits under "Stoneworking" above)
o Goldsmithing, and the smithing of other metals other than iron/steel
- silver, copper, tin, pewter, brass, bronze. Depending on what you're
shooting for, you might lump all metalsmithing under one Craft, divide
it into two Crafts ("hard" metals - iron, steel, mithril, adamantine,
etc. vs "soft" metals - gold, silver, copper, etc.) Or you might have
a separate Craft for each metal.

[...]
If I was forced to distinguish very little, I'd distinguish between
forging weapons (or, more broably, durable objects) vs making decorative
objects that won't be structurally challenged.
In Sagatafl, familiarity with the properties of a given metal is handled
as a binary skill, so you'd know or not know how to apply your
(non-binary) Weaponsmithing skill to forge weapons out of iron, silver,
bronze or even copper. The making of jewelry does not require
familiarity with the metal, unless it has exotic properties, e.g.
platinum which has a very high melting point.

Yes, there is even precedent for distinguishing between Craft
weaponsmithing) and Craft (weapon ornamentation). Function
is one thing; aesthetic quality is another.

- E

[Woof]

What about Barbers?
They cut hair and shave, they delouse, they use leechcraft to rid you of
your bodily poisons, they pull teeth, and they let you bitch about women
while you're still sober.

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.
This is what I have so far; I cannot think of anything else that is
worth adding that won't fit into one of the following divisions, but
perhaps someone else can think of something? Or do any of these
divisions wrongly group unrelated things together and need to be split
up?
Agriculture: growing and tilling fruits, vegetables, grains, etc.
Alchemy: chemicals & special (non-medicinal) substances
Architecture: safe and efficient construction of buildings monuments,
roads, aqueducts, as well as creative expression through architecture
Blacksmithing: metal armor, metal shields, metal weapons, metal pots,
fences, portcullises, other metal items
Brewing: preparing and preserving alcohols, liquors, wines, mead, etc.
Carpentry: furniture, bows & arrows carts, wheels, wooden weapons &
shields, other wooden items, and paper
Ceramics: mixing, shaping, firing, and decorating clay and ceramic
bowls, cups, dishes, etc.
Cooking: preparing and preserving food; collecting, identifying and
mixing spices.
Engineering: building things like water wheels, windmills, traps,
gadgets, and clocks
Herbalism: organic medicines, poisons, tobacco, drugs, etc.
Leatherworking: fashioning leather & hide clothing, armor, boots,
saddles, blankets, coats, parchment
Painting: using oils, watercolors, pencils charcoal, wax, etc.; visual
arts & cartography
Weaving: mending, sewing, and weaving clothing, tapestries, rugs, etc.
out of threads of cotton, silk, and so on; also covers making baskets,
bowls, clothing (hats), rugs, carpeting, etc. out of grasses, wicker,
palms, etc.
Stoneworking: creative sculpture and stonemasonry
Writing: technical writing, creative writing, chronicling

[Erol K. Bayburt]

Post by Woof
What about Barbers?
They cut hair and shave, they delouse, they use leechcraft to rid you of
your bodily poisons, they pull teeth, and they let you bitch about women
while you're still sober.

I'd call Barber a Profession rather than a Craft.

[tussock]

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.

Craft should be broken up by common material and tool. Assume
everyone can move and stack earth as required, then ...

Baking: the measured science of induced chemical reactions.
Joinery: woods, bone, horn, or soft stone. Carving and joining.
Masonry: hard stone or brick. Chipping, stacking, and plastering.
Smithing: metals and glass. Forging, hardening, and joining.
Tanning: turning perishable animal parts into durable goods.
Weaving: plant fibres or hair. For rope, cloth, bindings, etc.

Use Knowedge(AnE) to make buildings, ships, and such with the
labour of the appropriate craftsmen, allow spellcasters to use Baking
for alchemy, use baking to make pottery and bricks, inks, and even
poisons with the right feat.
Knowledge(Nature, Dungeoneering) to find the best raw materials.


Individualise NPCs with feats that allow special uses of the
general skills. Stuff like Metallurgist, Glassblower, Locksmith,
Silkworker, Jeweler (and other arts seperately), Shipwright, Poison Use,
and Trapmaking; all of which can be done at a hefty penalty without the
feat.
Poison Use is the same as the class ability, and allows one to
craft poisons with Weaving, Tanning, or Baking as appropriate. Ditto
Trapmaker and the Rogue's Trapfinding ability (anyone can dig a hole in
the ground, the Rogue can turn it into a trap).

Herbalism should just be Knowedge(Nature) applied to Baking. Paper
is Weaving, ink and bindings are from Baking, an artful combination of
them is the Calligraphy feat (Wizards get it free, part of Scribe Scroll).

[Woof]

While I certainly see where you're going on most of these, the Herbalism
draws a little short to me. You're applying all Herbalism to Nature and
Baking (probably as a substitute for Brewing), but having studied a little
Herbalism in my time, I think things go a little further and often in
distinctly different directions.

The first key to Herbalism (as you partly noted) is recognizing specific
plants, knowing where they are grown, knowing the proper harvesting
techniques (plucking, snipping, ... by the light of a full moon...), and
then producing the proper herbal remedies. The most common technique for
delivering an herbal remedy is to produce a tea you drink. Many of these
taste bad, so you have to know what you can add to improve flavor without
diminishing the quality of the product. For example, I'd swear St. John's
Wort, a little yellow flower used to treat depression, smells like dirty gym
socks.

Herbalists will be able to distinguish most plants in the wilderness and
certain levels of wilderness survival can be attributed to them. They know
a little more than "leaves of three leave it be" and could tell you what
that fat eared ground plant plantain is used for and what part of Spanish
Moss is edible.

Beyond teas, another popular herbal remedy is to develop a salve or cream.
The mortar and pestle is crucial to an herbalist.

Herbalists must also know how to extract the oil from a plant, which is not
as easy as it might sound. Then, of course, they know what oils are used
for what. Peppermint for sinuses, for example (this one really works, by
the way).

Gardening is a MUST knowledge for Herbalists.

In recognizing most plants, knowing where and how to gather them, and how to
extract the crucial ingredients to produce a useable product, the Herbalist
should be a Freebie for Poison Making (with the exception of poisons
produced by animals).

I would recommend all DMs keep these skills in mind for Herbalists when
dealing with them.

While more expansive by leaps and bounds, the separations and categories of
knowledge, skills,and feats has sometimes complicated a few things that were
a little easier before. Can't win 'em all.

Post by tussock
Herbalism should just be Knowedge(Nature) applied to Baking. Paper
is Weaving, ink and bindings are from Baking, an artful combination of
them is the Calligraphy feat (Wizards get it free, part of Scribe Scroll).
tussock

[tussock]

Post by Woof

Post by tussock
Herbalism should just be Knowedge(Nature) applied to Baking.

While I certainly see where you're going on most of these, the Herbalism
draws a little short to me. You're applying all Herbalism to Nature and
Baking (probably as a substitute for Brewing), but having studied a little
Herbalism in my time, I think things go a little further and often in
distinctly different directions.

More detail's a common mistake to make in RPG design. GURPS was
somewhat infamous for it's massivly over-detailed Biology skill, there
soley because Steve Jackson studied biology at university. DnD already
has ...

Knowledge(Nature), to recognise the live herbs.

Heal, to know and provide proper portions of said herbs.

(craft, to prepare, preserve, and add flavour without ruin.)

Survival, some overlap on the basics at higher DCs.

(profession, to run a buisness involving trade in it.)

Add a feat or class requirement if you desire it be restricted. OK,
I'm reading between the lines there, but it seems alright.

Post by Woof
Gardening is a MUST knowledge for Herbalists.

Our literacy is their gardening. Once everyone's got a skill, you
just count those few who don't. There should be /very/ few in medieval
lands who didn't know which ones the weeds were, and which bit of the
plant is the food.

Post by Woof
[...] the Herbalist should be a Freebie for Poison Making (with the
exception of poisons produced by animals).

<shrug> Poison's a very gamist construct in DnD, always has been.
Realistic treatments aren't great fun to play out, funnily enough.

Post by Woof
I would recommend all DMs keep these skills in mind for Herbalists when
dealing with them.

Meh. Nice post and all, but unless you're willing to write up a big
list of sensible modifiers to this and that for the drug use I doubt
herbalism will see play. Givin my own limited understanding, any
sensible modifiers would be almost always +0 anyway, not signifigant
next to the effect of adrenaline.

IOW, if I can't use it to kill an Orc, it's no use at all.

Post by Woof
While more expansive by leaps and bounds, the separations and categories of
knowledge, skills,and feats has sometimes complicated a few things that were
a little easier before. Can't win 'em all.

RPG design is an artful process at which I'm just not that good.
Great fun to have a try though, even when it is late like this.

[Woof]

"tussock" <***@clear.net.nz> wrote in message news:***@clear.net.nz...

If it works for you, stick with it
but if I may...


. There should be /very/ few in medieval

Post by tussock
lands who didn't know which ones the weeds were, and which bit of the
plant is the food.

Sadly, this wasn't the case. In medieval times, all knowledge was guarded
and passed down to select few, even at the mudworking family level:
"there's some nice filth over here." Not everyone knew that tomatoes
weren't poisonous, for example. Early on, you don't know a chive isn't a
weed without someone telling you or through experimentation. That's why not
everyone was a farmer, and why farmers could sell their crops to others.

Post by tussock

Post by Woof
[...] the Herbalist should be a Freebie for Poison Making (with the
exception of poisons produced by animals).

<shrug> Poison's a very gamist construct in DnD, always has been.
Realistic treatments aren't great fun to play out, funnily enough.

I try to contain at least some level of realism in most (not all) of my
campaigns. Even when referring to magic and illusions, I apply the old
common sense rule over sometimes contradictory book passages. In this, I
avoid things like the recently discussed process and value of spider venom
derailing an adventure.

Anyways, the Herbalist is almost always an NPC characters go to for help,
though some characters have chosen Herbalism and I make sure if they want to
apply it to the game, it has to be something realistic, not just a die roll.

(I think there's too much dependency on dice and rules and not enough on
role playing and common sense).

Sorry, I digress.

Among other things, your herbalist can construct from exotic flowers and
certain leaves the potions necessary to induce paralysis and death - you can
kill orcs with that - as well as cures for diseases, lycanthropy, and if you
allow it, even develop healing potions.

That makes a decent Herbalist a necessary stop in each little hamlet visited
along the way. Developing an interesting character around the herbalist,
this NPC can slip necessary plot information to the PCs.

If a PC is to have this ability, make them pay for it with a little real
knowledge or folklore and not just say "I'm using my herbalism"

I don't agree that adding detail is bad, though as you point out, it can be
overdone at times. I guess that's all where I'm going with that.

If I'm a little scattered in this reply, I humbly apologize. The pain meds
are wearing off and it's hard to concentrate.

[Bill the Omnipotent]

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.

I'd leave it alone. It's fine as is.

[Erol K. Bayburt]

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 18:43:48 -0400, Bill the Omnipotent

Post by Bill the Omnipotent

Post by x***@yahoo.com
I am looking to try to remake D&D's Craft skill list to look more like
D20 Modern's Craft skill set: a finite list which encompass nearly
everything medieval that's worth Crafting or taking ranks for.

I'd leave it alone. It's fine as is.

Another possibility is to take the HEROization of D&D one step further
forward and introduce "group skill ranks" for sets-of-skills like the
Craft skills, the Knowledge skills, the Profession skills, or the
Performance skills.

For example: "For three skill points you may buy +1 rank in all the
skills in the skill-set, provided that they are all class skills for
you. The maximum number of ranks you may buy this way is equal to your
level. You may also buy additional ranks with individual skills in the
set, with the total number of ranks in a skill being limited to the
usual maximum of (level + 3)."

Thus a fifth level character could spend 15 skill points to buy +5
ranks in all Craft skills, plus an additional 3 points to raise his
Craft(brewing) up to 8 ranks.