3.5e suprise/encounter distance?

[Justisaur]

Playing last night, it was important to know exactly how far an
encounter started. 3e had all these surprise, encounter distance, etc.
charts.

As far as I can tell there's nothing in 3.5e. After searching for about
20 min (and looking where it used to be), and reading the bits that were
there I concluded that surprise happens at the DM's option, and the
players concluded that encounter distance happens at 10' per point over
10 rolled on the highest spot for either group. I.E. our wizard gets
22 on his spot, no one else gets a higher spot, the encounter begins at
120' away, everyone else hasn't spotted anything yet, so I conclude this
is the surprise round with the wizard the only one able to act.

Did I miss something? Were these rules moved somewhere and I just
couldn't find them?

[Damador]

When: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:59:32 GMT
Who: Justisaur <***@rcsis.com>
Where: <***@rcsis.com> Group: rec.games.frp.dnd
begin quoted message:

:Did I miss something? Were these rules moved somewhere and I just
:couldn't find them?

as DM i always adjust encounter distance according to situation and
player/monster tactics

[Bradd W. Szonye]

Post by Justisaur
Playing last night, it was important to know exactly how far an
encounter started. 3e had all these surprise, encounter distance,
etc. charts. As far as I can tell there's nothing in 3.5e ....

The encounter distance rules have been moved into the terrain type
descriptions in the DMG. You can also find them in the "Wilderness and
Survival" section of the SRD, under "Stealth and Detection in ...." For
example:

Stealth and Detection in a Forest: In a sparse forest, the maximum
distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of
others can succeed is 3d6×10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance
is 2d8×10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6×10 feet.

Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it's
usually easy for a creature to use the Hide skill in the forest.
Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding
possible.

The background noise in the forest makes Listen checks more
difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1
(but note that Move Silently is also more difficult in undergrowth).

These Spot checks use the normal rules for the skill instead of the old
"check once at maximum distance, then again at half the distance" rule.
I haven't gone over the rules in detail to determine exactly how it
works out.

[Justisaur]

Post by Bradd W. Szonye

Post by Justisaur
Playing last night, it was important to know exactly how far an
encounter started. 3e had all these surprise, encounter distance,
etc. charts. As far as I can tell there's nothing in 3.5e ....

The encounter distance rules have been moved into the terrain type
descriptions in the DMG. You can also find them in the "Wilderness and
Survival" section of the SRD, under "Stealth and Detection in ...." For
Stealth and Detection in a Forest: In a sparse forest, the maximum
distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of
others can succeed is 3d6×10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance
is 2d8×10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6×10 feet.
Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it's
usually easy for a creature to use the Hide skill in the forest.
Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding
possible.
The background noise in the forest makes Listen checks more
difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1
(but note that Move Silently is also more difficult in undergrowth).
These Spot checks use the normal rules for the skill instead of the old
"check once at maximum distance, then again at half the distance" rule.
I haven't gone over the rules in detail to determine exactly how it
works out.

This helps a bit. Instead of just basing the encounter distance on the
spot check, it looks like a roll for the initial encounter distance,
have everyone roll spots at that time. I'm still not entirely sure what
to do if everyone fails that check though. I'm guessing move the
encounter one round's movement closer (or wherever they are going) and
roll again?

[Bradd W. Szonye]

Post by Justisaur

Post by Bradd W. Szonye
Stealth and Detection in a Forest: In a sparse forest, the maximum
distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of
others can succeed is 3d6×10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance
is 2d8×10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6×10 feet.

This helps a bit. Instead of just basing the encounter distance on
the spot check, it looks like a roll for the initial encounter
distance, have everyone roll spots at that time.

Yes, that sounds about right.

Post by Justisaur
I'm still not entirely sure what to do if everyone fails that check
though. I'm guessing move the encounter one round's movement closer
(or wherever they are going) and roll again?

Probably. I'd need to dig through the rules a bit more to be sure.

[Tim Williams]

Post by Bradd W. Szonye

Post by Justisaur

Post by Bradd W. Szonye
Stealth and Detection in a Forest: In a sparse forest, the maximum
distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of
others can succeed is 3d6×10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance
is 2d8×10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6×10 feet.

This helps a bit. Instead of just basing the encounter distance on
the spot check, it looks like a roll for the initial encounter
distance, have everyone roll spots at that time.

Yes, that sounds about right.

Post by Justisaur
I'm still not entirely sure what to do if everyone fails that check
though. I'm guessing move the encounter one round's movement closer
(or wherever they are going) and roll again?

Probably. I'd need to dig through the rules a bit more to be sure.

The 3.0 rule was automatic spot at 1/2 the above distance.

[Steven (Silverblade)]

Thats SPOT vs HIDE encounter distances, creatures *not* hiding are pretty
damn easy to spot at up to a mile, depending on their clothing, vision, and
the terrain, so Line of Sight and vision conditions would be main factors
against NPCs who are not hiding...note that shiny armour is extremly bloody
obvious ;)

Example is that the encounter distance is 6d6x40' (480 yards max) in Plains,
think of someone walking across the prairie or Steppes...they stand out for
a looong way way. But if they are Hiding, it's a different matter, so 6d6x40
hide vs SPot makes sense..
--
Silverblades Suitcase
www.silverblades-suitcase.com
I'd rather be a Fool who believes in Dragons,
than a King who believes in Nothing

***@NOSPAMsteve14.freeserve.co.uk
Remove NOSPAM from email address to reply!

Post by Justisaur
Playing last night, it was important to know exactly how far an
encounter started. 3e had all these surprise, encounter distance, etc.
charts.
As far as I can tell there's nothing in 3.5e. After searching for about
20 min (and looking where it used to be), and reading the bits that were
there I concluded that surprise happens at the DM's option, and the
players concluded that encounter distance happens at 10' per point over
10 rolled on the highest spot for either group. I.E. our wizard gets
22 on his spot, no one else gets a higher spot, the encounter begins at
120' away, everyone else hasn't spotted anything yet, so I conclude this
is the surprise round with the wizard the only one able to act.
Did I miss something? Were these rules moved somewhere and I just
couldn't find them?
--
- Justisaur -
check http://justisaur.tripod.com/well.htm for my encounter generator,
xp calculator, and other useful documents.

[Rupert Boleyn]

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:26:05 +0100, "Steven \(Silverblade\)"

Post by Steven (Silverblade)
Thats SPOT vs HIDE encounter distances, creatures *not* hiding are pretty
damn easy to spot at up to a mile, depending on their clothing, vision, and
the terrain, so Line of Sight and vision conditions would be main factors
against NPCs who are not hiding...note that shiny armour is extremly bloody
obvious ;)
Example is that the encounter distance is 6d6x40' (480 yards max) in Plains,
think of someone walking across the prairie or Steppes...they stand out for
a looong way way. But if they are Hiding, it's a different matter, so 6d6x40
hide vs SPot makes sense..

Also note that aside from very flat steppe, plains, (very dry) desert,
or snow fields most terrian has a lot of cover, so unless you're
following a road someone at a long distance will only have short
opportunities to spot you in.