Are you your ally?

[Jasin Zujovic]

Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include", but
I'd like an specific rule if possible.

Case in point, the new archivist class from Heroes of Horror, and their
dark knowledge ability:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

[Mark Blunden]

Post by Jasin Zujovic
Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include",
but I'd like an specific rule if possible.
Case in point, the new archivist class from Heroes of Horror, and
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3

The only specific example I can think of is the Bard's Inspire Courage,
which specifies "allies (including himself)" as the target. That they need
to specify implies that in normal circumstances "allies" does not include
the person granting the effect.

Then again, in the case of this specific PrC, it's hard to see how a
successful Knowledge check by a character could grant his allies an
advantage and yet not confer it upon himself.

[Jim Davies]

Post by Mark Blunden

Post by Jasin Zujovic
Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include",
but I'd like an specific rule if possible.

The only specific example I can think of is the Bard's Inspire Courage,
which specifies "allies (including himself)" as the target. That they need
to specify implies that in normal circumstances "allies" does not include
the person granting the effect.

Bless (the spell) has it both ways:

Area: The caster and all allies within a 50-ft. burst, centered on the
caster
Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale
bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.

Prayer is similar.

Charm Person, Command Undead, Invisibility and Miracle all explicitly
say "you and your allies" or words to that effect.

IMHO, you are your own ally unless the alternative would be stupid.

--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org

[Peter Knutsen (usenet)]

Post by Mark Blunden
The only specific example I can think of is the Bard's Inspire Courage,
which specifies "allies (including himself)" as the target. That they need
to specify implies that in normal circumstances "allies" does not include
the person granting the effect.

An alternative reason is that some GMs will invariably interpret game
rules in the way that most severely screws their players, and therefore
the WotC writers feel (being aware of the fact that some GMs are like
that) the need to be absolutely and pedantically clear, so as to
maximize the fun that people have playing their system.

Post by Mark Blunden
Then again, in the case of this specific PrC, it's hard to see how a
successful Knowledge check by a character could grant his allies an
advantage and yet not confer it upon himself.

[Werebat]

Post by Peter Knutsen (usenet)

Post by Mark Blunden
The only specific example I can think of is the Bard's Inspire Courage,
which specifies "allies (including himself)" as the target. That they need
to specify implies that in normal circumstances "allies" does not include
the person granting the effect.

An alternative reason is that some GMs will invariably interpret game
rules in the way that most severely screws their players, and therefore
the WotC writers feel (being aware of the fact that some GMs are like
that) the need to be absolutely and pedantically clear, so as to
maximize the fun that people have playing their system.

True DAT! Like, MY DM interprets the rules so that I can't use my
spiked chain underwater without a penalty to hit! What a SCREWJOB!!!

He's also a HARDASS STICKLER about thinks like time limits on Improved
Invisibility spells... I try to tell him the spell should just last all
combat, and he CUTS ME OFF after the specific "screwjob" time limit.
Where's the FUN in THAT?!?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Post by Jasin Zujovic
Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include", but
I'd like an specific rule if possible.

What if you're your own worst enemy?

- Ron ^*^

[Reginald Blue]

Post by Werebat

Post by Jasin Zujovic
Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include",
but I'd like an specific rule if possible.

What if you're your own worst enemy?

That'd be an interesting spell effect, perhaps for curse...

You are your own worst enemy. Spells that normally would affect you because
you are considered an ally, such as bless and prayer, fail to function for
you.

[Some Guy]

Post by Werebat

Post by Jasin Zujovic
Quick question: when a rule mentions allies, but doesn't explicitly
include or exclude yourself, what's the default? I think "include",
but I'd like an specific rule if possible.

What if you're your own worst enemy?
- Ron ^*^

Or your own worst friend?

http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/sandy.denny/songs/ivebeenmyownworstfriend.html